Oleksandr Shpakov is a cult figure in the history of Dynamo Kyiv. He failed to gain a foothold in the first team, but witnessed the development of Lobanovskyi as a coach at Dnipro, and as a child mentor he found and brought up the winner of the Golden Ball, Andriy Shevchenko.
Photo: footboom.com"Vanat cannot solve this problem"
- How would you assess the current state of Dynamo?
- All the excuses of the team's head coach Mircea Lucescu are about the youth. That he gives young players a chance to prove themselves. Today, young people are unstable in their results. Perhaps some players are overrated. Perhaps they are not yet ready to fulfil the requirements of the head coach. That's why the team's results are so poor.
- Dynamo has always been famous for its defence. What is happening with the Kyiv defence now?
- These are individual qualities. The guys are poorly prepared. The ball selection, the game on the second floor, the first pass. Especially in the selection. They take the balls poorly.
Once upon a time, Mykhailo Koman worked on these qualities in the double. Without this, there can be no good player, especially a defender. You need to work in children's football, then in adult football. This is the quality of the game that is being improved.
- Dynamo has always had a great tradition of forwards. When will the next strong striker appear?
- Why are there no forwards? It all depends on the school, who works with the children. Today, Vladyslav Vanat cannot solve this problem. A forward has to play, break in, look for space, and he always has his back to the opponent's goal.
- Is it possible for Dynamo to be successful if it relies on the pupils of its own school?
- This question should be asked to Dynamo's school and its director. Only he can answer it accurately. He has had everything in his hands for so many years. Things have not improved. So he has to answer, where is the result?
- Has the Spanish system of player training, which was introduced during Rebrov's tenure, paid off?
- And where is it? If there is no success, no result, no promising players? It worked for several years. Then it was replaced by others, then by thirds. Then they entrusted it to one person.
What did they leave behind in the Dynamo school? Today's result? Or was it good and someone spoilt it? We need to analyse this question to give an answer.
"They became champions for Ukraine. But I am interested in the future"
- How difficult is it to bring up a quality footballer?
- It is very difficult. In order to bring up a good player, you need to have good coaches. Those who see the guy's future prospects. In our country, preference is given to those children whose parents can sponsor a coach. Nowadays, most coaches depend on their parents. When a person is financially dependent on someone, it is difficult to demand quality work. Coaches become dependent on their parents' ability to pay. This is not a problem of today, it has accumulated over a long time.
- What qualities should you look for in children's selection in the first place?
- First of all, speed. We see Mykhailo Mudryk. He is not yet a quality player. He lacks school. Receiving the ball, beating. He is dependent on space. Mykhailo can't handle the heel, as they used to say. If he is given space, then he proves himself. He has a very good quality for future development - speed.
I worked as a school coach for 40 years. I was a player for five years. My total football experience is 45 years at Dynamo. Very technical, well-trained guys came to me. But they couldn't prove themselves because they couldn't run away or withstand a power struggle. You can catch up with physicality or technique through training and the quality of coaches. Speed is natural.
- Why are there so few Kyiv residents in Dynamo's team?
- In Kyiv, two clubs are considered to be non-paying - Shakhtar and Dynamo. Traditionally, everyone tries to get here. Parents have not become richer during this time. Free meals, accommodation, tournaments, ammunition, facilities. Hence the good result. People from every part of the country want to come here.
- How important is anthropometry for youth football?
- The quality of a footballer can only be determined at the time of graduation. When recruitment took place, there was always testing. They recommended who could be taken to the school. They didn't pay much attention to height or weight. They took into account speed.
- The example of Artem Dovbyk shows that strength helps. At Manchester City, anthropometry also helps Erling Holland.
- It is impossible to rely on these qualities alone. We know a lot of players who do not have great physical qualities, but they show their best. Because they have game intelligence. The speed of game thinking compensates for other shortcomings. If this is present, the player has a good future.
- Is the result important in youth football?
- Without results, there will be no growth of players. Results are important, but not at any cost. Not at the expense of the training process.
- Why is the transition from youth to adult football so difficult?
- Poor quality of work in youth football. What was enough at the youth level is no longer enough at the adult level. If a player is physically developed, then technical and tactical training comes first. How he handles the ball, how much time he spends working with the ball. This hinders many players who think that they have achieved everything among young men, so now they can play at any level. In some components, they lose out to European players - in reliability, in the school of training.
- How do you see the development of Ukrainian football?
- Without a strong championship, it will be difficult to train quality players for successful transfers to Europe. Without one, there will be no other. Without technique, there will be no tactics. If a player cannot pass, the ball will not be delivered on time.
If we have shortcomings in children's football, we need to train players who are generally developed in terms of football. We don't always have enough patience. Teaching technique is very hard work for the coach and the player. A young footballer needs to be made to repeat the same thing. And children love to play. Not every coach is patient, not every player has endurance. Only joint efforts can lead to a good result.
- In the summer, the Ukrainian youth team reached the semi-finals of the Euros. What can you say about Ruslan Rotan's team?
- "I always assess the Youth team positively. They can do what they can do, and they give the same result. Again, the quality of training of each player comes first. Playing only on moral and volitional qualities is not very good. When we played with European teams, you can see the potential of the opponent's player. Ours is also promising, but he lacks certain qualities and school.
Almost everyone can play defence. This is a one-day result. We should be interested in the long-term effect, the future. Yuriy Kalitvintsev became a European champion with the Ukrainian youth team in 2009. Can you name me a player who could prove himself in Europe? The answer is rhetorical. They became champions for Ukraine. But I am interested in the future.
- Why do so few young coaches get their chance?
- This is a very difficult process. Sometimes they don't trust, sometimes they are afraid. It all depends on the club managers. Everything is individual. This is a question for them. People go through training, licensing, pay money, and then can't find a job. Club managers don't see the need for them.
"Shevchenko was forgetful - he could get the stadium wrong or not come to training"
- You have been in football all your life. How much has football changed?
- In the past, we used to compete with Europe. Having an advantage, we lost. We complained that there were no grounds, no fields, and that children's education was not as good. Now we are lagging behind not only in terms of infrastructure, but also in terms of playing. The national team can still play successfully, but the clubs are falling further and further behind if we are talking about football as a game. We have downgraded in class compared to Europe.
There used to be children's and youth sports schools. There were inspections. They demanded the quality of player training. I was present at the recruitment in Nyvky. Previously, the selection took place at the Dynamo stadium. Two or three stands were filled with children and their parents. The selection lasted all day.
- How painful is the issue of parents? They are now trying to interfere in the upbringing of footballers. Does this factor have a negative or positive impact on the development process?
- They are trying to control the process. This is a disadvantage for the coach. Perhaps the coach is not bad, but the psychological fact that he depends on his parents is not good. Coaches are on a leash with parents. Parents, interfering, control the boy, the process, and hinder the development of football.
- Is education important for a footballer?
- I still have the football diaries of some of my pupils - where they received marks at the analysis. They also gave marks for individual tasks on a day off from training. Andrii Shevchenko, Ihor Kostiuk and many others did this. Does anyone do it today? It's a self-assessment, an analysis of each player. I checked, sat for hours over these diaries. Some people tried to cheat: they didn't fill them in for a week, then quickly caught up. It's a self-assessment, a reminder to work on yourself to become a good footballer.
I also checked regular school diaries. Kostiuk, for example, was doing well. Sheva sometimes got caught. Andriy was forgetful - he could get the stadium wrong or not come to training. So his mum and I agreed that after training we would call each other and find out if Andrii was there. There was two-way contact and control. It helped Andriy a lot in his development.
- Will Shevchenko not continue his career as a coach?
- Never say never. He has tried himself. I can't say what's inside him. He is persistent. He can do it again. Or maybe he is already planning to work in another field.
- How would you assess his coaching work with the national team and the club?
- It was difficult to raise the team at Genoa without club experience. In football, it's not just the coach who has an impact, but also the players around him. It didn't work out in Chelsea because Jose Mourinho didn't quite accept me. The issue of Shevchenko was resolved without the Portuguese coach - by the then owner of the club, Roman Abramovich. This offended the ambitious coach. I have already said that his players ignored him on the field. So, they didn't quite accept him. Perhaps the coach's attitude had an impact. This is a very difficult question. I say this as a fan, not a coach.
With the Ukrainian national team, the teamwork with the Italian assistants turned out very well. At that time, he was a success with the national team. Then there were misunderstandings with the UAF president.
"Ihor and Yosei did not get along in character. Few people got along with Sabo."
- Do you talk to Andrii Mykolaiovych today?
- He calls me. There is no such communication. He has enough problems of his own. Four sons, their upbringing, their education. But he does not forget.
I turned 77 years old today. Andrii's sister Olena brought me his book with an autograph and wishes. I was in tenth heaven. Then this book was published in Ukrainian. I went and bought another copy. I now have two books. I am glad that he mentioned me on 11 pages. I am very pleased.
- Did you immediately see the potential in Andriy?
- They were all talented players for me. I went around the city looking for them, some of them came to me. During one of my raids on Obolon, I came to the housing office championship and saw Andriy with his friend. When school started, Shevchenko's friend began to fall behind, and then stopped playing football.
Then the Chernobyl tragedy happened. I found Shevchenko in March, the accident happened in April. All the children had left home. The older ones were taken to a camp, but the younger ones could not be left without their parents, they were not ready for that yet.
He was gone until September. Almost everyone came back, and those who didn't were in touch. But there was no news from Shevchenko. I went to Obolon. I talked to his father. The family decided that Andriy should follow in his footsteps and become a soldier. I had to be cunning and convince my father that football and the Dynamo school would only help Andriy prepare better physically to enter a military school. My father believed me and gave me the go-ahead. I think that in the future he would not regret his son's choice of profession. I still have Andrii's application for admission to Dynamo school, signed by his parents.
- Back then, Ihor Kostiuk was given large advances on a par with Shevchenko. Why didn't he have such a successful career as Andrii?
- One day, Hryhorii Mykhailovych and his wife, Ihor Mykhailovych and their father Mykhailo Davydovych, who was still alive, came to the arena to watch Vyacheslav Surkis play. We were sitting and talking. Hryhorii Mykhailovych asked me this question: "Who was better in his youth - Kostiuk or Shevchenko?". I answered: "Kostiuk."
Why did it not work out? A little bit of character, a little bit of circumstances, this and that, but the main reason was that he had a falling out with Jozsef Szabo. He was the head coach at the time. That's why Ihor left for Vorskla. I have a recording of Kostiuk scoring a goal from the middle of the pitch, throwing the goalkeeper over. Ihor and Yosia didn't get on well in terms of character. Few people got along with Sabo.
"San Sanych, why didn't I listen to you?"
- You are known for having brought up many star players. Were there any players who showed promise but failed to realise their talent?
- Serhii Rozhok. Pavlo Yakovenko invited him to his academic group, but he decided to stay with me. He was an intelligent footballer. He lacked character. He was a great player, but his lack of focus and sleepiness on the pitch prevented him from becoming a good footballer.
Now his son is playing football. At alumni meetings, Serhii often asks me: "San Sanych, why didn't I listen to you?"
Sasha Yatsenko. He played centre-back for Oleksiy Mykhailychenko. Jozsef Szabo took him out of the first team, and Goran Havrancic started playing in the centre of defence.
The other Sasha is Holokolosov. I took him from Chornomorets. He had a broken cruciate ligament. He was fast, technical, scoring, felt the ball and the position. He had the potential to achieve a lot. Now he works as a chief scout for Dynamo.
And also goalkeeper Viacheslav Kernozenko. I thought that they would all get a foothold in the first team. But it didn't work out. Everyone has their own reasons. This is football.
- Ihor Kostiuk has been coaching the youth team for six years. How would you assess his coaching potential?
- The indicators show that he has achieved certain results working with young people. It is very difficult to select academy graduates, understand who suits him, and introduce them to the squad. Young players are very unstable. In the UEFA Youth League, we showed good results. There are certain achievements, certain work speaks for itself that he is already a mature coach. He can try himself higher.
- Dynamo had a situation when Oleksandr Hatskevych or Oleksiy Mykhailychenko were fired, but he was not given a chance. Did he deserve the opportunity to work independently?
- It's up to the managers to decide. For my part, I can say that we worked together and I know him well. Ihor has gone through all the stages of coaching development. He started at the academy, then worked in the youth team. He made himself through his work. Nothing was just given to him. I think he deserves to be promoted. It's worth a try.
- Nowadays, Dynamo relies on its own pupils. Kostiuk has gone through all these guys, trained them all. There are almost no foreigners in the first team. In the current circumstances, is Ihor Volodymyrovych the best fit for the first team?
- Yes, he is. We have been talking about this for a long time, but no action has been taken. Today's first-team coach sees potential in the youngsters, but he has worked more with mature players. Now is the time to try a Dynamo coach who has worked with these guys.
- Does it hurt Kostiuk that he didn't have a big name as a player?
- Wait a minute. Have all former star players become coaches? Jose Mourinho didn't play football at all. So this is not an argument. Today it is more practical to hire a coach who has worked with these young players who are now in the first team. At least they should be given a chance. I believe that in the current situation there is no big risk.
Valerii Lobanovskyi left for Dnipro. He had nothing behind him, only the status of a former footballer. I saw Lobanovskyi's first steps as a coach at Dnipro. I was supposed to join Kanevskyi in Kharkiv, but he managed to convince me to become a Dnipro player. Three years later, Lobanovskyi was returned to Kyiv. "Dnipro won the Premier League. I did well. They gave me a chance and I was able to prove myself. How can you see if Kostiuk will be a good coach if you don't give him a job? The management has to make a decision.
- Do you watch the matches of Dynamo's youth team now?
- When my health allows. If I feel good, I attend.
- Which of the young players impresses you the most?
- I don't want to say. It can only be determined when he reaches the European level. The extra attention sometimes gets in the way. A player can prematurely believe that he has already achieved everything he can and will not develop further. Some of the first team are praised, but I don't believe in them. My personal point of view.
"There were engineers and various managers sitting in the reception area, but Lobanovskyi came straight into the office"
- What are your memories of Lobanovsky?
- I met him when I was playing for the double, and he was playing for the first team. We played in sparring matches against each other. I have the warmest memories of him as a player. He could run and not sweat. It made me laugh, I was always sweating. His sweating was different, his body peculiarities. When I touched him, Lobanovskyi pushed me away and wiped himself with his hand. He was squeamish.
As a coach, he bought me from Viktor Kanevskyi of Metalist and took me to Dnipro. I became the team captain. Everything was subject to discipline. Everything was written down - how much for violations, how much bonus. It was scheduled for a month. There was a plan. For each point, there was a bonus. For exceeding the plan - also a bonus. The director of Yuzhmash, Oleksandr Makarov, had a direct connection with Leonid Brezhnev. The plant manufactured parts for satellites. That's why we had such opportunities. There were engineers and various managers sitting in the reception area, but Lobanovskyi would go straight into the office and deal with football issues.
As a coach, he gave very heavy workloads. He worked together with Anatolii Zelentsov. He went through the school of Viktor Maslov, who removed him, so he already had experience. He experimented a bit at Dnipro. Then he was taken to Dynamo, where he wrote his name in the history of world football. Only fond memories...
Serhii Tyshchenko
