Dynamo Kyiv president Ihor Surkis gave an extensive interview, sharing his impressions from both matches against Shakhtar Donetsk (2−1 in the Ukrainian Cup, 1−3 in the Ukrainian championship), as well as expressing his view on the situation regarding the recent unsuccessful results of the team and the future of its head coach.
Ihor Surkis— Ihor Mykhailovych, it was a tough week, nerves were frayed. Three confrontations with Shakhtar: the Cup, the youth championship, and the Premier League. You always set the task — victory in every match: but how do you assess these confrontations?
— After an unsuccessful match in Turkey, which we completely failed, I will say one thing: you can lose, but on the football field, you have to give your all. Yes, there are moments when the team concedes in the second minute, but after that, I didn’t see a single shot on goal. Of course, this caused me great concern. I started to ask myself the question of whether the team might be in some sort of crisis.
Understanding the situation we found ourselves in, realizing that a whole group of key players could not participate in the match, including Yarmolenko, who fell ill (and later proved that he still has «powder in his flask»), as well as Dubinchak, Tymchik, Shaparenko, Bilovar — all this, of course, had a significant impact. For our team, which mostly consists of graduates from our own academy, Ukrainians, this is very important.
The team pulled itself together, played a very quality match against Kryvbas, and knocked out our main competitor from the Ukrainian Cup, which brought me great joy. Why? Because I look at football a little differently than perhaps some fans or journalists, who assess the first half as bad and the second half as good. You remember the phrase of a great coach — «The score is on the scoreboard!».
The quality of the game is of tremendous importance to me, but when it comes to a confrontation with a team like Shakhtar Donetsk, where strong, talented, young players are gathered who will only add to their class with each passing year, we also need to make certain steps to be ready to resist them. After all, football consists of two halves. And I can say — respect to the team for the match against Kryvbas, respect for the game in the Cup.
I want to emphasize once again: the same players who could not participate in the Conference League match could not play against Shakhtar in the Cup! Even though they would have helped to resist the young, aggressive, and technical players of the opponent. Moreover, to the list of names I mentioned earlier was added Voloshyn, who recently showed very good form. But we defeated Shakhtar even without several of these key players.
In the defensive line, we faced a real catastrophe. Popov came on the field with a serious nose injury, and there was practically no one to replace him because Bilovar was injured. Playing with two left-footed center-backs is, agree, difficult.
But what happened in the match in Lviv didn’t just upset me as the club president — I can say frankly: it caused me outrage. I have never heard Shovkovsky, who always stood out for his diplomacy, use the word «arbitrariness» when it comes to refereeing. But if he used it after the match, it speaks to the fact that even his patience has run out! Just like mine!
Palkin, after a player was pushed somewhere near the penalty area, in the corner, and then a goal was scored, gave an interview in which he said, «I know who needs this.» So, I also want to reply: I know who needs this. And I know very well.
At that time, the score was 2−1, and the referee did not award a 100% penalty. Perhaps it wasn’t there — but in such a situation, the VAR system was obliged to intervene. And why did referee Paskhal not pay attention to this moment? Romanov might not have seen it, might not have had time, but what is VAR for then, if it doesn’t even review such episodes?
Why also didn’t they pay attention to the moment when Popov was hit with a straight leg — not playing the ball but just in the leg — and for this, they showed only a yellow card? Isn’t it strange when in matches where there is such tension, where the players play with a pulse of 200−220, with great desire, the referees behave as if it’s a friendly game? We see how referees return to the old story with Harmash... But we will not remain silent anymore.
Let’s go back to the October match with Metalist-1925, when Buyalsky was blatantly kicked in the legs in the penalty area, but again — they did not award a 100% penalty. Therefore, I have mixed impressions from the last two matches. I cannot have any claims to the team regarding their dedication. Yes, there are things that need to be improved. Yes, I understand that the team needs to be strengthened. Not from a good life, Yarmolenko plays center-forward. But if our main forward starts to play and score in every match, then probably Andriy will play in his usual position. But for today — both in the match with Kryvbas and in the game with Shakhtar, — he proved to be a master.
— Ihor Mykhailovych, representatives of Shakhtar’s management, as you rightly noted, repeatedly pressured the refereeing corps this autumn. Could Romanov’s mistake have been the result of such pressure?
— I do not know under what pressure he was. But I remember well the episode in the cup match when Popov tackled and played the ball — the referee immediately showed him a yellow card. Then the entire Shakhtar bench literally jumped as if someone was killed.
Yes, maybe he provoked someone with his words, maybe he said something wrong. But the fact remains. Popov meant that earlier he had to play against real European-level stars — Willian, Douglas Costa, Fernandinho, Alex Teixeira. Those were high-class footballers. And the current guys still have to prove that they are stars too. Yes, they are good players — after all, footballers are not bought for 15−20 million just like that. We do not have the opportunity to buy players for such money today, especially during the war. Even if business were working now, I would not allow myself to spend such sums on transfers because there are things more important than football now. We have places to spend. But that is the business of each club. And what now — should we not participate in the championship? We are a Ukrainian team, we play in the Ukrainian championship. With Ukrainian players. And I consider this absolutely fair.
That is why I want to give a clear answer to the respected Mr. Palkin — and I ask you to record this. We know who is behind all this.
If the referee worked at a high level in the Cup — there are no questions for him. But Romanov officiated as he once officiated in the final when Vanat was fouled, and he also didn’t award a penalty. Then we kept quiet because we thought it was an accident. But an accident is one time! The second is a coincidence, the third is already a pattern.
But now I will not be silent. If today such obvious penalties are not awarded, then why play football at all? The game could have completely turned around: the score would be 2−2, and perhaps we would have even scored the third goal. Because the third goal they scored didn’t decide anything anymore — absolutely nothing. The whole team went forward, trying to play back — that’s natural.
That’s why I can’t have any claims against the team. The game was on the brink of possibility — the guys gave everything they could. Shakhtar noticeably tired at the end of the meeting — in both the first and second games. And we did everything possible, tried to strengthen the attack through quick flank players who could add speed in the second half. But unfortunately, due to the same reasons I have already mentioned, we simply did not have such an opportunity.
— In the media, it was written that the reason for Dynamo’s unsuccessful series was supposedly a «conflict» between the head coach and team leader Andriy Yarmolenko. Shovkovsky and Yarmolenko repeatedly denied this. In your opinion, could this have added certain pressure on the team?
— If you ask me who I communicate with more — Shovkovsky or Yarmolenko, it will be difficult for me to answer this question because I communicate with both, just as I communicate with Buyalsky and other players. Now I communicate with the team two to three times a week — I come to training, talk to them. People can believe me, they can not, but I want to emphasize: no conflict between Shovkovsky and Yarmolenko exists and has not existed. There were working moments. But Yarmolenko has the right to suggest something as a leader, as an experienced player who played in top championships. And the coach may like it, or may not, but it is a normal working, professional process. Do you think Lobanovsky could not have the same conversations with Belkevich, Shevchenko, or Rebrov? There were talks even in the dressing room, both after victorious matches and after defeats.
Journalists have inflated some «conflict,» which affected the team, which, leading in each game, conceded in the last minutes. And I would pray that as long as I am the president of the club, there would be a leader like Luzhny once was, and today — Yarmolenko. Without such players, it is impossible to build a team. A dull herd is not needed by any coach.
Many now comment on how the team plays. Some say it’s good, some say it’s bad. I remember Myron Bohdanovich Markevych’s team, which played with Napoli in Kyiv and went to the final. I was at that match. Then, by the game, Dnipro was nowhere near superior to Napoli, but won on character 1—0, on will, and the team deservedly rejoiced after the final whistle. They went to the final, where they could completely outplay Sevilla. Tell me, if Sevilla were outplayed as Napoli was, having a huge gameplay advantage, would anyone remember it today? No one. This is football.
Professional people who know something about football should not evaluate the game by one half. It is necessary to evaluate the entire game as a whole. Of course, Shakhtar was motivated, created more moments. But that doesn’t mean anything yet. Yes, they could have scored more, or they could not have scored at all, if not for the mistake in defense in the opening minutes. And then we could have opened the score — and everything would have gone completely differently. This is football. You cannot claim that this team is stronger and therefore will win — that doesn’t happen.
We are by no means going to give up. We will fight for the championship. But if the Premier League continues to have such refereeing — it will be pointless. It’s a futile affair. Such refereeing kills all intrigue.
For some reason, everyone pays attention only to Dynamo Kyiv. But should we not pay attention to LNZ, which defeated Shakhtar with a score of 4:1? Was there not maybe our intervention? Are we not being accused of anything? Why today does Rotan’s team, why did Shakhtar not beat them?
I am not asking for anything, just honest refereeing. If there was a penalty — award it. If in our goal — put it in ours. What is VAR for, if it is not used in such moments? Let’s then give it up, stop paying for it. Let’s now listen to Mr. Rizzoli and the head of our refereeing committee Kateryna Monzul. She is a professional referee who has won numerous awards. Let her come out and answer. Why in Italy do referees come out and explain why a penalty was awarded or not, why this or that player was sent off. Without hiding anything, they immediately explain it to the viewers, making their decision.
— In some championships, referees even give interviews…
— Yes, in the Italian Serie A, referees immediately give arguments for their decision, announcing it to the entire stadium. Who do we want to fool? Ourselves or the viewers, who in a country that is in a state of war, spend their last money to come to the stadium and see an interesting spectacle? Wouldn’t it have been interesting if the referee had awarded a fair penalty in Lviv, the score would have become 2−2, and then let the stronger win?.. Instead, referees today just kill the spectacle.
— Would you support the idea that referees, like coaches and players, give interviews after matches?
— I am only «for,» I am for transparency. We live in an open society, we want to enter the European Union. In Italy, referees after the match immediately give interviews and explain why they awarded a penalty or why they didn’t. I am confident that in a year or two, this practice will be in other countries as well. The referee comes out to the stadium, explains his decision, and all questions immediately disappear. Because both VAR and the chief referee come to a single conclusion. And we sometimes even have a controversial moment that remains unresolved. Everything is clear.
— Recently, there has been a lot of talk and rumors about the head coach of Dynamo. How do you feel about this information?
— When Shovkovsky was at his peak — they were ready to carry him in their arms. Last year, he won the championship — they adored him. And today he is bad. Former big footballers, half-drunks, who no longer play, give interviews, saying that the coach needs to be removed or not removed. But it’s not up to them to decide.
If needed, I will make the decision myself. I see how Shovkovsky works. I see how he progresses as a coach and gains experience. A difficult situation, yes. Perhaps we cannot strengthen his team today as much as we would like. But he works with those who are there. But, believe me, if we wanted to build a team of foreigners, even Nigerians, we would do it. We would invite 5−6 Nigerian players — and they would come to us. But that’s a completely different story. Today I am confident in Shovkovsky and trust him.
— Many people say that after being knocked out of the Champions League, the most important thing for Dynamo now is the championship and the Ukrainian Cup. Ahead of the team is a Conference League game against Zrinjski. What are the goals for it and, in general, what are the goals for the European season?
— For the European season, Dynamo had the task to reach the Champions League. For various reasons, the team did not do it. Perhaps due to the inexperience of the head coach... I will explain why. The main players gathered only on June 24 — those who did not play for the national team. Those who played for the national team joined on the 1st or 2nd directly at the training camp in Austria. Those who played for the youth team arrived on the 9th-10th, and the first match of the season was already on the 22nd or 23rd. So those who came from the «youth» made up about 80% of Dynamo’s main lineup. These are actually our key players.
This experience might be important for Shovkovsky. But he couldn’t immediately bring them all to the same level of physical fitness. Because, for example, Shakhtar was perfectly prepared for Besiktas — and we all saw their result afterwards. It was impossible to prepare the team for such early trials perfectly.
It is necessary to consider that the country is at war. And today we all together — club presidents, UAF and the Premier League — must unite around the key task: to raise the level of Ukrainian football so that the ranking of our clubs and the Federation as a whole allows the Ukrainian national team to consistently participate in international tournaments. This is possible only with fair and transparent refereeing — not only in the UPL but also in the First, Second Leagues, and youth competitions. We must do everything so that even children on the football fields see an example of justice, not arbitrariness, so that referees are guided by the rules of the game, and not by their own discretion.
Rebrov was one of the best coaches, in demand in Europe. He worked in different countries. But he lost the match against France — and then he was immediately criticized and it was written that he should be fired.
I kept quiet for a long time, but to rudeness and lies, I will respond harshly. Let them write whatever they want — I will make the decision about the coach myself. How long Shovkovsky works will be decided only by me. And I trust him. The team must progress. If this does not happen — of course, the question of changing the coach will arise. But I am convinced that together with the team, Shovkovsky can progress. And we are ready to support him in every way possible, which we are doing now within the framework of trust in him and his coaching staff, despite today’s results, which are not very encouraging.
The football he wants to play requires, perhaps, additional strengthening of the team — and we are constantly looking for it. Shola and Tiare — definitely strengthened our squad, adding healthy competition. They were not afraid to take advantage of this opportunity. But not every player we invite wants to come to Ukraine because of the terrible war.
The main thing today is victory for our country. Ukraine needs to be cleansed of this filth so that the war ends and we live in a peaceful state. Then you will see how football will develop. But if it develops with the kind of refereeing that we saw in Lviv, — I frankly say: it’s pointless, and it’s not worth the effort.
