One of the former leaders of Donetsk "Metallurg" and "Stal" Vardan Israelyan spoke about working with the legendary legionnaires, the fate of the club base and the telepool.
— Vardan Mikhailovich, what are you doing today?
- You can say that I didn’t go far from football. Basically, this is a football school, focused on children's football. It's called Phoenix. There are already 6 different age groups. So far, all this is not as we would like, not as in my opinion the school should work. But that's okay, we'll make up for it.
— Are you watching the Ukrainian Football Championship now? How would you rate its level?
- As far as possible, I'm looking. As for the level, it has unfortunately fallen. Even among our top clubs.
— Probably more interesting than some of the matches was the telepool epic. In your opinion, which model would be correct today: showing on a paid platform or in open access, on nationwide TV channels?
- In the situation that has developed in the country, it would probably not be correct to make a pay-per-view. Perhaps it would be worth trying some kind of combined option: live broadcast is paid, and shown in the recording is free. This problem has always been there. But clubs didn't take it seriously in the 2000s. This issue was first raised at the club level by Vladimir Geninson. He wanted to make a single pool, but he did not succeed, because some of the clubs wanted their games to be broadcast on 2 + 2, and some on Football TV channels. As a result, they did not come to a common opinion.
It is not right. There must be one TV company in the country that can broadcast championship matches. It's my opinion. Unfortunately, the equipment of the channels itself does not quite correspond to pleasant viewing. You watch the Italian championship, for example. There is a beautiful picture, even the most uninteresting games look interesting.
— I heard that during the time when you were in charge of Steel, you considered changing the translator and leaving for 2 + 2. Truth?
— No, there was no such story.
— You came to Metallurg in 2001 and caught the first stream of foreign players in the team. 5 years ago, Igor Gyuzelov told me a story about Bernard Chutang, who came to one of the Donetsk shopping centers and bought jeans. After paying, he sat down on the floor and started rubbing them on the tiles. When asked why he does this, he replied that distressed jeans are the latest trend. What stories with the first legionnaires do you remember?
- In the first year of my work, there was no directly large flow of legionnaires in our club. We took Gyuzelov, then Ristic appeared. But the local staff suited us quite well. It later became fashionable to invite legionnaires. We mostly had good legionnaires.
As for such moments, as you said, there were plenty of them. I think that football humor is very peculiar. What is happening in the football world, in teams, probably does not happen in other areas of life. Of course, there are many funny stories, but they are not quite for general viewing.
— As the saying goes: "there is a lot to remember, but there is nothing to tell."
— Yes, that's for sure.
— And what was the salary of legionnaires in those years? On what conditions did they agree to go to Donetsk?
- At first, now it even sounds ridiculous, we had a salary of 1,500 dollars. At that time, as at Shakhtar, then the salary sheet began with 10 thousand. Naturally, when you are building a club and want to achieve some results, you have to try to look up to the leaders. We have never pursued this in order to equalize the payroll in accordance with Shakhtar or Dynamo. But we paid more than other clubs.
Then other clubs appeared that had better salary opportunities. But our budget has always been less than they said, and than the leading clubs had.
— At various times, such well-known football players in Europe at that time as Andres Mendoza, Jordi Cruyff and even the legendary Brazilian Ailton played for Metallurg. How did you manage to lure them to Metallurg?
- The period you are talking about was the time of the prosperity of Selyuk. Basically, all the legionnaires came through it. Mendoza was a really great player, but he played when he wanted to. If he had been in a different period at the club, given his football capabilities, behavior and attitude to everything, he would not have remained in the team for a long time.
As for Cruyff, he is a very smart and pleasant person, and a good football player. Even when Selyuk's epic ended, we wanted to extend the contract with him. He had good qualities, but we failed to achieve success in the negotiations - someone really did not want him to stay in the club.
Ailton helped us a lot just at the moment when all the legionnaires left, Yaschenko was the coach, and I returned to the club. The club's rating dropped a little, and Ailton was a very strong player. I remember when we played against Werder Bremen, he created enormous problems for us. I understood that with his arrival, one should not expect him to play in the same form as in the days of Werder Bremen. But the very fact that Ailton came to Metallurg already pleased the fans. Unfortunately, he did not really show himself, so he did not stay for a long time. He himself perfectly understood that his career was already ending, so he didn’t really shine.
— You remembered the matches with Werder Bremen and that terrible score 0:8 popped up in my memory... How did you sleep after this defeat?
- If you slept... I fell asleep somewhere after three nights. It is impossible to describe those feelings. I was so ashamed that I didn't even want to fly back from there. And you had to fly with the management, with the team, with the fans. It was a dark day for me and for the club. Although, many were fine. As they say: football players have a tragedy for only one night. Then everything is forgotten.
— In 2005, I came to football for the first time, to the Shakhtar stadium. It was a Metallurg match — "Miner". It seems to be nominally home, but in fact it is worse for Metallurg than any away team. Why was the club unable to impose competition on Shakhtar in the fight for the fan?
- Here you need to look into history. Shakhtar was the only team in Donetsk that played at the highest level. After a lot of years, a new team appears - Metallurg. People are not used to it yet, they don’t understand what it is. If a simple resident of Donetsk is then told that he can go to football, he will choose the Shakhtar match, and not Metallurg.
But the better the team began to play, the more fans we got. At first we had a small stadium - 2500 fans. Then we managed to expand it to 5,000. I probably won’t reveal America to you if I say that some clubs practiced a simple method of filling the stands: they took the fans in buses. Our leadership was categorically against it. We had the opportunity to bring 5-10 buses from each plant, just to provide a picture. But this is not the way of development. So people don't root for the club. They came, were present for 15-20 minutes and went about their business.
But when we started playing at the Shakhtar stadium, since the UEFA Cup games could not be played at our stadium, a lot of fans came. About 12 thousand. This process was very difficult, but interesting.
— Metallurg wanted to build a stadium in Makiivka. There was a beautiful project for 20 thousand, but the construction was frozen and it was never built. Why?
— I won’t name a specific reason, I just don’t know. But this project was not closed, they still wanted to finish it. If you know, we had Metallurg's academy based there, there were fields, a children's school, a place to live. We followed this path, but then this project abruptly stopped. It was a pity, because I myself was present at the design of this stadium by a German company. Everything should have been perfect there: 22,000 is quite a good stadium for the Ukrainian championship.
— That is, was there a plan to transport Metallurg from Donetsk to Makiivka?
- Yes, the stadium was built in Makiivka, because there was a place there, in the old stadium. Other options were also considered, in particular, Alchevsk. Why didn’t it work, because Alchevsk is Stal. People are accustomed to going to Stal all their lives. Until Metallurg would become its own, even if the owners are the same, a lot of time would pass. But fans would still love Stal. For them, it's like Shakhtar in Donetsk. Therefore, Alchevsk fell away immediately. And Makiivka was considered, there should have been a large complex.
— But Metallurg had an ultra-modern base, which all the guests really liked. How was it built? How much did she cost?
“The base was really great. It was built very quickly. How much it cost, I can’t say, but I think somewhere around 10 million, maybe more. She is very good. I was at many bases even of top clubs, but at that time I had not seen such a place anywhere. The comfort zone there is very small, there was where to sleep, and there was where to train. And we had a very cool base.
The reviews were very good, many came just to watch. By the way, this was our secret weapon. When we really wanted to lure a footballer, but the agents prevented me, I stayed to talk with the agent, and the footballer was sent to the base, because we knew that he would fall in love with her. In the end, we persuaded the player.
— You don't know what's going on with the base now? What condition is she in?
- I know that when the war started back in 2014, some group entered there. They said that they didn’t touch anything, they say, they come, wash and leave. Then I found out that a lot of equipment had been stolen from there. But for 2-3 years the fields were monitored, all this was watered. I supervised this part in the club. But, despite the fact that the club was no longer there, the fields were maintained in good condition for some time.
How do I know this? Denis, a Zarya functionary, once drove by and looked at the condition of the fields. They were top notch. To be honest, it hurts to talk about it even today.
— Dmitry Selyuk: a productive manager or an internal competitor? Did he help Metallurg more or hinder?
- He's definitely not a competitor. Not in terms of being stronger or better at something. It's just that the club itself means nothing to him. I wouldn't call him a manager. He is a good agent who can push his obscure players anywhere. Somehow he manages to do it. He knew how to persuade the management to take unnecessary players.
When he received an official position at Metallurg, I did not work at the club. We had constant conflicts with him on many issues. He brought football players who did not have the right to be in a football club. There were also good legionnaires, of course, but if you have the opportunity to get 100 players through a club, then 2-3 of them will probably be at a good level.
You will ask about Yaya Toure, this is the only player who was really top. Even after the first training session, it was clear that he was a great player. It was clear that this was a transit point for him, because he was still a young player. It is unlikely that he had a desire to stay in Ukraine for a long time. As a result, he played for a short time and left.
Selyuk has his own program. His development of the club was never interested. By the way, I can tell a funny story.
— Tell me.
- He somehow sent us two football players. We had to pick them up when we flew to Austria to hold training camps. We were supposed to meet these players at the airport. In general, the administrator and the head of the team were running around the airport, looking for these guys.
In the end, we found. Two came, so puny. We took them, they practiced and we even declared them. Although I thought that at best, they can play in the U-17s. In general, they arrived, started playing them. One made a couple of accelerations, fell on the curb and was barely pumped out. As a result, I convinced everyone that such players should not be on the team. Because it affects both the atmosphere in the team and the players too.
We decided to send them back. The head of the team, Sorokin, personally volunteered to take them to the airport. I told him: "You make sure that they get on that plane and fly away." He arrives in shock. I ask: "What happened?" He says: “Mikhailovich, I brought them to the very landing, only they didn’t let me in to the trapping. I thought that everything was fine, and they had already flown away. While I talked with my friends, while I returned to the car, sat down, drove back ... I looked, and two of our guys were running across the field, who were supposed to fly away. They caught up, caught them, and they began to beg: “Don’t send us back, we will do whatever you say. If necessary, clean the boots as well.” This is such a funny story.
— Do you think agents harm football or is there something good from them?
- Agents harm football, although there are really people among them who think about a football player. When Mkhitaryan moved to Shakhtar at one time, I was the sports director of Metallurg and acted as an agent in this case. When we signed the contract, I did not like some points. I said that they should either be changed or removed altogether. And Palkin told me: “You are worse than an agent. It’s easier for me to negotiate with them than with you.” I say: “Yes, worse. But only they would then want a couple of million more from you for this. He agreed.
Agents are needed to negotiate instead of a football player. A football player, in principle, should not do this. I told Mkhitaryan then: “You don’t need to look for an agent. The time will come when the agents themselves will look for you.” Moreover, his sister worked in the UEFA legal department. The main thing is that the contract is written correctly, so that later there are no complaints against the football player.
And many agents interfered, because they were not interested in the fate of the football player, whether he would remain in the club or not. To get their agency money cleanly - and that was where their interest ended. But the reception with the base played its role. Although, personally, agents more often interfered with me than helped.
— What are the differences in the functionality of the general director and vice president of the club on the example of Metallurg Donetsk?
- At first, the club had vice presidents, and then they were replaced with positions such as general director, sports director, and so on. What is the difference? I don't know how it happens in other clubs, but in the same Shakhtar there is no sports director as such. Palkin does everything there. Now Srna has also appeared, but his position is somehow strangely called: "director of football."
We had an internal agreement that the general director deals with purely club everyday issues: base, pitches, financial part. And the sports director closes all questions on the sports component. In a nutshell, the only difference is this.
Although, sometimes I had to do everything, but that's normal.
— You led the football club "Stal" (Kamenskoye). But it wasn't long. Why?
— Initially, when I was offered to work at Stal, I refused. This was when Metallurg had already ceased to exist. Stal had its own leaders, and I did not want to get into it. But after a certain time, I was offered the post of president of the club. And I asked investors: "Why do you need a club?" They answered me: “We want to make a cool club so that it develops and looks like Metallurg Donetsk.
And at first everything was fine, but then the DMKD plant abruptly stopped funding. I had to look for money, to invest something. So we lasted almost a season. I promised the President of the Federation that we would not withdraw during the championship, but would play it to the end. And with all these problems, we didn't even take off. But this is also a sore subject for me.
— Stal had two bald Dutch coaches who are very similar to each other: Eric van der Meer and Jacob Gall. In Metallurg Donetsk, you also had a period of Dutch specialists: Willem Fresh and Ton Kaanen. How did these people end up in Ukraine? What kind of Dutch scheme worked?
- Fresh and Kaanen worked at Metallurg at the same time that Selyuk worked, I can’t tell from them how they got to the club. But as for Eric, then one person came to Metallurg and brought 3-4 coaches for the youth school. But he had some conflicts with the leadership, so he did not stay long. But Eric stayed in Ukraine, he worked at our academy and worked very well.
And then, when Steel appeared, I offered him to lead the team. He knew the Ukrainian championship, I liked the way he worked at the academy. And he has already brought his assistant, Jacob Gallus. This is already my part of the “Dutch scheme”. And when Eric left, Jacob led the team.
— Metallurg had a good Armenian diaspora in the team. The most successful of them was Henrikh Mkhitaryan, but there were other interesting legionnaires: Gevorg Ghazaryan, Marcos Piselli and others. How did this selection process take place?
- Yes, there was also Ara Hakobyan, the best scorer of Stal in his time. I had the opportunity to follow the Armenian players, especially since the president of the Banants football club, for which I used to play, was my brother. And also, together with Metallurg, Oleg Artushevich Mkrtchyan oversaw Armenian football too. And the footballers who came to us were the footballers of the Armenian national team. Among them were those players who very quickly adapted to Ukrainian football, but there were also those who were not bad in terms of qualities, but for some reason did not suit the club. There were many good players, and Piselli was a good Brazilian Armenian.
As Selyuk likes to brag about Yaya Toure, so I can brag about Mkhitaryan. He is a wonderful person and football player, a role model for today's youth.
— It is a well-known fact that Mkhitaryan lived at the base while playing for Shakhtar, and did not rent an apartment in the city. Was it like that in Metallurg too?
— He lived at the base. Both here and at Shakhtar. I even sometimes scolded him for this: you can’t sit within four walls all the time. I suggested that he go out into the city, drink coffee somewhere, take a walk along the streets. But he constantly trained! At any time you come to the base, and he is constantly with the ball, doing some exercises. He set a goal for himself and achieved it.
— What requests did the legionnaires most often make to you?
- Legionnaires addressed on domestic issues. We couldn't force them to learn the language. First, it was difficult for them. Therefore, we had an interpreter who helped them with everyday issues. They called him at any time, he helped them. But in Donetsk then everyone got used to foreigners, there was no difference, whether it was a miner’s legionnaire or a metallurgical one. All people tried to help.
— Do you plan to return to the top management of Ukrainian football in the foreseeable future?
- This desire is always there. Both desire and opportunity. I would love to work in a club. But I want it to be an outlet, and not just a place where I came at 9, left at 18 and that's it. So you don't want to.
Daniil Vereitin