Former Dynamo Kyiv defender, captain and coach Oleg Luzhnyi spoke about his career path, the problems in Ukrainian football and how society has changed since the start of the full-scale invasion.
Published with abridgements.
- Oleg Romanovich, it is known that from the first days of the full-scale invasion you joined the ranks of the terrorist defence. Why did you decide to do so?
- I did not believe that this could happen. I didn't believe that a neighbouring country would attack us - they shout from everywhere that they are brothers. So why did they do it? It's a sneaky stab in the back. This is a difficult time for our country and we need to help it in every way possible. I think it was the right decision to join the ranks of the TRO. We went and patrolled one part of the city, mostly at night. In particular, there were two policemen and five volunteers in that group. Of course, I could have easily gone abroad, but I decided to stay with my family, friends and my country. Everyone who knows me understands that I could not have done otherwise in this situation. But no one would have understood me if I had left Ukraine at that moment.
- Do you see changes in society after the full-scale invasion ?
- It's hard to say, but perhaps something has changed for the better. In particular, there is more respect for each other. People are united by a common idea, and they are consolidating their support for the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The disaster has united society. It is these people who should form the foundation of a new Ukraine. Of course, there are also scoundrels who profit from the war and come up with various corruption schemes. They speculate on facts and commit crimes.
- You have worked with Russians Yuri Semin and Valery Gazzaev. You also know other Russian players and coaches. Did they ever call you to find out how you were doing or to express their condolences?
- No, they never called me. I read an interview with Semin where he said that he believes Putin did the right thing. After that, I don't want to talk to him - I wouldn't even shake his hand. Some guys have called to ask how we are doing, but they are mostly afraid to call a spade a spade. It doesn't make sense to me, because I've always been used to telling the truth, so I'm disappointed by these people.
- We know that Adams and Vieira called you after the full-scale invasion began .
- Yes, these guys called, as well as Henri and many others. It was very unexpected, but I thanked them for their support. I did not think they were following the events in Ukraine and me in particular. They asked what our situation was and how they could help. Especially in the first months of the full-scale invasion, they were in touch regularly. It's nice to be able to maintain this communication and to have world-famous people ready to help us and fully on our side.
- You were also supported by Arsenal when they included you in the application for one of their matches and presented your personalised shirt in the dressing room. Were you surprised by this gesture and how did you react to it?
It was unexpected for me, but at the same time very nice and it touched me. I am sincerely grateful for this gesture of support, it is very valuable for me. It is also important for our country's image, because it draws more attention to our realities and the world learns about what is happening here. They really care about us and this is very important. There are honest and fair people in England. There is almost no corruption there, which is why they have such a high standard of living. They have the right values, and we have something to adopt from them in our everyday life. Even take football - look at the development of associations and everything will become clear.
- Does football really help the military to distract themselves from the game and get positive emotions? How important is it for clubs and players to help the Armed Forces? Do our defenders feel this support, both emotionally and financially?
- I hardly ever talked to the military about football, because we didn't have time for such conversations at the time. Now we need to focus on helping our defenders and do everything we can to bring our victory closer. I am in touch with the guys, and together with my colleagues I try to meet their needs. However, I try not to advertise this, because we should not advertise at the expense of our soldiers. It is the duty of each of us to do everything necessary to support the Armed Forces and bring our Victory closer.
- How do you see Ukraine after the Victory?
- I hope and believe that it will be a completely different country. Society will demand honest people with a good reputation. Society will not tolerate corruption and negligence of duty. The country will grow over time and this process is inevitable.
- You have had an incredible career as a player. You started out playing for Torpedo Lutsk, then ended up at Lviv's SKA and a year later received an invitation from Dynamo. What emotions did you feel when you were called to Dynamo?
- Before Dynamo, I was invited to Chornomorets Odesa and Metalist Kharkiv. When I heard that Lobanovskyi was interested in me, I was very pleased. At that time, Dynamo players were the backbone of the USSR national team. I talked to Blavatsky and Lutsyshyn, who convinced me that it was too early for me to join such a big club. But my mother convinced me, saying that if you have such a chance, there is nothing to be afraid of, because later you may not receive an invitation from Dynamo, and you can always move to clubs of the rank of Chornomorets or Metalist, and you should use this opportunity. I thought about it and decided that it was really better to join the Kyiv club.
- What are your vivid memories of that time? What did it mean to you to win the championship? What matches do you remember as the most interesting?
- The USSR championship of that time was something like the modern Ukrainian Premier League in terms of its level. It was a very high level. Every game against Moscow teams was played as if it was the Champions League final, in particular against Spartak and Dynamo. There were also strong opponents from other republics - Dynamo Tbilisi, Ararat, Zalgiris, etc. Points could be lost with every opponent. There were no easy games, so you had to give 100% in every match.
- Later, you were recognised as the opener of the USSR championship. How unexpected was it for you?
- I was only 20 years old at the time and didn't quite realise it. I immediately received a call-up to the USSR national team. It was also a big surprise for me when Lobanovsky announced the list of teams. Then I played all the qualifying matches for the 1990 World Cup, but I injured my meniscus two months before the Mundial. I had an operation in Kyiv and recovered - I could have played, but I felt I was out of shape. Later, the guys said that Lobanovskyi regretted not taking me, Salenko and Shmatovalenko to the World Cup - they were in great shape then.
- After the collapse of the USSR, the Ukrainian championship was created and Dynamo became the flagship of Ukrainian football for a long time, as the team won the Ukrainian championship and cup many times. How did it happen back then?
- During the creation of the Ukrainian championship and the first few seasons, there was a serious hole that we felt. We had a strong team, but our rivals were clubs that had recently played in the Second League. The level of competition dropped and we didn't have the same motivation - the team slowed down. However, we gradually regained our form and began to play well in European competitions.
- What did you lack in 1999 to get past Bayern? How did the team cope with being knocked out in the semi-finals and how important was it to reach that stage, given that Ukrainian teams have not achieved such results in the Champions League since then?
- I wouldn't say that we lacked anything in this match. Before that, we had a few matches in that season when we were very lucky. Against Barcelona, Rebrov took a shot, but the ball was cut off in the goal, and it was the first goal and the game went according to a different scenario. In Madrid, we drew 1-1 with Real Madrid, but we could have lost that match. Then everything came together: our skills, luck, and the problems of our opponents. I watched those matches with Munich so many times that I caught myself thinking that if we had reached the Champions League final, we would have won it. However, we were unlucky in the semi-finals, and luck plays a very important role in football.
- Many of Dynamo's players attracted the attention of European clubs at the time. Did you want to leave the club and why did you choose Arsenal?
- I received an invitation from Benfica in 1996, and I was first called to Arsenal in 1997. But then they didn't tell me about it... Then in 1998, I received an invitation from Liverpool. And a year later, when I was already 31, I managed to join Arsenal. Some players finished playing at that age, and then I moved to England and played in the Premier League. When I had already signed with the Gunners, my agent told me that Surkis and Lobanovskyi were returning from a Ukrainian championship game and Valeriy Vasylovych said that "maybe we can find such a player, but never a captain".
- There are legends among footballers that when Luzhnyi came into the dressing room during half-time, especially when the game was bad, he could kill a player with just one look. Is it fear, respect, or how can you explain this attitude towards you in the team?
- I can't say anything about myself, it's better to ask my teammates. They just saw my attitude to the game and they took an example from me. The guys said that they saw me training and could not be negligent after that. I believe that the way the leader behaves, the whole team plays. For me, there was no authority on the pitch and I gave it my all, and my teammates did the same. If I saw that someone wasn't working hard enough, I could say a few 'gentle' words.
- After the Ukrainian championship, you started playing in the Premier League. What was the difference and how did you feel about the transition to the next level? Another country, another way of life - how did you get used to it?
- It was like another planet. Back at Dynamo, we played Arsenal and Newcastle in the Champions League - yes, strong rivals, but nothing special. I was also going there, thinking that I would be able to "chase" everyone there. However, when I got to England, I realised that football is completely different there. Every game there is like a European Cup final. On the field, you could not turn your head once again, because you always need to be concentrated for the entire 90 minutes. All the players in the Premier League are very strong individually.
- You played under the guidance of some of the best coaches of the time - Valery Lobanovsky and Arsene Wenger. Why did they become legendary, what was their speciality? What did they teach you? How do their instructions and coaching ideas differ?
- I think Lobanovsky was a much stronger coach. He created players. Whereas Wenger took ready-made players. Of course, Arsenal was a smart specialist and a good person. Everyone respected him, he was very intelligent and had a talent for coaching. At the same time, Lobanovskyi developed players and did so without much money. He needed time to assemble a team, but what results he showed. However, they are both very high-level specialists.
- Arsenal had a huge number of world-class stars: Henri, Bergkamp, Adams, Siemian and many others. What were they like both on the pitch and in everyday life? Did you feel that they were players of a fundamentally different level?
- Although I didn't communicate with everyone at the beginning, I was constantly supported. In general, there were three groups in the team: the British, the French and the rest of the legionnaires. We were not friends, but we were a good team that went out on the pitch and got results. The players understood that we had to do our job at a high level. Arsen selected players who were aware of this. For example, I signed a 3-year contract with Arsenal, even though I was already 31. When I told Lobanovskyi about it, he took off his glasses. And then I extended my agreement with the Gunners for another year. There has always been fierce competition in England and I was pleased that at such a respectable age for a player, the club management trusted me to extend my contract. They could have taken any player from any country in the world - Arsenal could afford it.
- You won the Premier League, the FA Cup and the FA Super Cup twice. Did this satisfy the team's ambitions, or did you set higher goals?
- For 4 years, we won the championship and came second three times. And the second place was perceived by Arsenal as a tragedy. There is only first place in England. Wenger once gathered the team before the season and asked what we wanted to win. The English said the Premier League - they were not interested in other tournaments. While the Europeans were talking about the Champions League. Only Sol Campbell said he wanted to win both tournaments.
- Sir Bobby Robson included you in his symbolic world team. Were you surprised by his choice? Or did you not pay attention to it?
- My agent sent me this video a year ago. Once a year, at a meeting at UEFA headquarters, he asks football legends about the best players and symbolic teams. At the time, I asked him: "Where were you with that video before?" I think Robson was a little bit over the top with that assessment. Maybe second or third, but not first in his position. But seriously, it was very nice to hear such words from a legendary personality.
- You are the national team's record holder for the number of matches with the captain 's armband - you played 39 matches in this status. What did it mean for you to lead your team on the field? Does it increase personal responsibility?
- In fact, the captain is a coach on the field. You have to set an example for your teammates and prove why you were entrusted with this role. At the same time, as a captain, you represent the whole country and have a double responsibility to the fans.
- Unfortunately, you never managed to play in a major national team tournament. The team reached the play-offs several times, but lost there. Which matches are the most memorable for you? What did the national team lack at that time to achieve better results?
- At that time, the national team was very unlucky. Especially in the play-off match with Slovenia. Then the Slovenes beat us thanks to a mistake by the head coach, who made a mistake with the squad for this game. And before that, in the play-offs with Croatia, we were stopped only by the referee - the team was killed. In 2001, Ukraine could not get past the Germans. Although we drew at home, it felt like they were stronger. That's how they defeated us in the return leg.
- In your opinion, was the team of that period stronger than the teams that later played in major tournaments? The 2006 World Cup, and the Euros in 2012, 2016 and 2021?
- I think we had a stronger generation, but we were unlucky. Although there were good teams afterwards, otherwise they would not have qualified for these tournaments.
- Are you satisfied with the way your career has developed? Or do you feel that you have not done everything on the football field?
- In general, I am satisfied. Although I would like to be in England 3-4 years earlier and play more there. I also dreamed of winning the Champions League.
- After your playing career, you immediately started coaching, even combining these roles in Latvia .
- The president of Venta had ambitions to create a quality project and selected people for it. But competitors intervened and did not allow him to build a strong team. Nevertheless, I think I made the right choice to coach in Latvia and not immediately at Dynamo or the national team. Everything has to be gradual.
It was there that I first saw the difference between the role of a player and a coach and realised that these are completely different things. I remember the first game with Sconto, where the referee "killed" our team. After the match, I asked him why he did it, and he said that he was told to do so. Everything was done for the sake of one team, which had to always win. At first, everything was fine, we had good conditions, but then the president was interfered with and everything collapsed.
- After Latvia, you ended up at Dynamo Kyiv. You were both an assistant coach and led the team yourself. Why didn't you end up being fully entrusted with coaching Kyiv?
- This question should be addressed to the club president. Overall, it was an interesting period in my career. I worked in the coaching staff of both Semin and Gazzaev. I also took over the team several times as acting head coach and achieved good results - I picked up the team in last place in the group stage of the Europa League and led it out of first place in the play-offs ahead of schedule. However, I never received an invitation to become Dynamo's head coach.
- Later, you returned to Dynamo as a member of Oleksandr Hatskevych's coaching staff - how do you assess this period?
- I was invited for an interesting project, and Khatskevych assured me that we were building a super-team. However, later it became clear that Oleksandr's promises were not true. He invited players to Dynamo who were nowhere near the level of the club and the tasks set. At that time, Dynamo had the opportunity to strengthen qualitatively and achieve good results. I know that there is a 'football specialist' called Shabliy who played a big role in these transfers. I asked Khatskevich why he was bringing these players into the team, but he couldn't explain it to me. I like professionalism and honesty - I am like that and I demand the same attitude from people. Unfortunately, I did not see this there.
- Now your ex-partner Alexander Shovkovsky is following a similar path. He was an assistant in Lucescu's staff, and now he is the acting head coach of Dynamo. What can you say about this appointment? How do you assess Shovkovskyi's chances of improving the results of Kyiv? Does he have the prospects to become a good coach?
- I don't know what Shovkovskyi is like as a coach, so I can't talk about it. Everything will be seen by the results that Dynamo will show. I wish him only success and I want Oleksandr to succeed. I wish every coach in Kyiv to bring back the glory of Dynamo and bring it back to the heights that this legendary club deserves.
In general, I hope that both Dynamo and other Ukrainian clubs will make every effort to revive the level of our championship 10-15 years ago. It was at that time, in my opinion, that the Ukrainian League was at a high and high-quality level and was competitive in Europe.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Armed Forces of Ukraine, who are defending the country from the aggressor. Today, the top priority for every Ukrainian should be to work together for the Victory. Let's win, rebuild the country and revive football.
Yarema Chuyko