Former Dynamo head coach Oleksandr Khatskevich has criticised athletes who keep silent about Russia's war against Ukraine.
- Alexander Nikolayevich, everyone is summarising the results of 2023. What was it like for you?
- The year, probably, like for everyone who is worried about Ukraine, was quite difficult.
As for my personal moments, on my return from Cyprus (Oleksandr Khatskevych coached the Cypriot club Karmiotissa - note), my family and I stayed in Europe. Because it was necessary to solve the issue of legalisation.
Why? My Schengen visa ran out in Cyprus, I couldn't go back to Europe. I waited about four months for a visa to come back. With our Belarusian passport it's hard enough to do all this today. But in Poland such an opportunity appeared. Our family decided to make documents so that it was possible to return to Ukraine in peace. And from Ukraine it was possible to go to Europe with our Belarusian passport.
- What are you doing now? The last information I could find in the public domain is that I am a coach-consultant in the Polish amateur team "Skra".
- Someone made up wishful thinking that I am a consultant. No, all this time I travel to charity matches in support of Ukrainian children who today have left their homes and live in other countries. I am engaged in this big charity event.
- You still have an anniversary in 2023 - 50 years.
- Yes, we are getting older. But that's okay. The main thing is what's in your head and how you feel.
- Most of your career has been spent in Ukraine, which has been at war for two years. You know the Ukrainians well. What's their main secret? Why did russia get such a strong response, why did it break its teeth on Ukraine?
- It will, when it wins. Today it's breaking its teeth on Ukraine. Why? First, I can give you an example. Firstly, the Ukrainian people are independent and love independence. When the treaty was signed in Belovezhskaya Pushcha in the 90s, many former Soviet republics sighed and gave up this communist past. Everyone wanted independence.
So Ukraine loves independence, the people love independence, they were going for it all the time. And when the war started, the first thing to do was to read and study the words of the Ukrainian anthem, that "we will lay down our soul and body for our freedom."
What is the second thing? The character that Ukrainians have. Do you know why we are still fighting? Because we'd rather die than be Russia. That's the slogan. And this thirst for freedom, this thirst for life that was in Ukraine before the invasion, people appreciate it and realise that if, God forbid, Russia were to rule there, everything would be over.
Because the most important thing is freedom and expression of one's thoughts and opinions. In Ukraine, you can criticise the president, criticise the government. I have been living in Ukraine since 1996, I speak Russian. There are no problems at all.
- Do you feel a little bit Ukrainian?
- You know, I'm still a Belarusian, because I've been offered to change my citizenship and passport more than once. But I love my country. Yes, I was born in the BSSR, in the Soviet time. But Belarus is the country that gave me life. Of course, I know Ukrainian mentality very well, I understand their language well, I can speak Ukrainian, but not as purely as I would like.
- Is there a difference in mentality between Ukrainians and Belarusians?
- Of course. If we talk about football, when I arrived, there were such posters all over Ukraine that our goal was the World Cup 1998. However, the Ukrainian national team does not get to this forum. Then it appears again: our goal is the European Championship. Again we did not get there. In the end, the Ukrainians get in, because people have a goal, a dream, they go to this dream and achieve it. As for the Belarusians, here are the same words of the anthem, which we have: "We, Belarusians, are peaceful people," and that's all.
- Many people associated with football are fighting in the AFU now. Are there many of your acquaintances at the front?
- To say that there is someone there at ground zero, I don't have any guys I know. There are those who volunteer and are there.
- Are there people from the world of football with whom you stopped communicating after the war started?
- I can't say that I stopped communicating with anyone from the world of football. It is clear that there were once acquaintances when I played in the Soviet Union, there were contacts with the same players of Spartak Moscow. But at the moment they simply don't exist for me.
- Did any of your Belarusian and Russian colleagues call you after the war started and ask: "Alexander, how are you there?"
- There was not a single call.
- After the war started, sparks between Belarusians and Ukrainians, accusations started. How are Belarusians treated in Ukraine now?
- You know, the position is important, and it should be clear and understandable. There are no half-measures here today: you are either on this side, or you are on that side. You can speak in Belarusian, you can speak in Russian, but you need a clear position. Then you will be treated the same way by Ukraine and Ukrainian people.
- Are our guys-volunteers well known?
- I'll speak for myself. I have telephone contact with them, these are the people who deserve my respect, because they came to my house, they came to Ukraine treacherously, they came at night, as everyone says.
We should talk about them, because volunteers stood up to defend my home. If "green men" came to Belarus, God forbid, as in Ukraine in 2014, and in time tanks would come in, and then a Ukrainian or a Georgian would come to defend Belarus, I would respect them too. Why shouldn't I respect the Belarusians who fight and die for Ukraine to be free?
- Do you follow what is happening in Belarusian football today?
- I get some materials. But to say that I saw the championship games or saw the games of the national team, then for the last two years I am not interested in this championship and the national team at all, because I will definitely not see anything there from the professional point of view.
- What diagnosis could you give to the Belarusian football now?
- It's a crisis. A strong crisis. Let's look at the rating of the national team. I don't think it is even in the top 100 today. Then let's look at the club ratings of Belarus itself, as well as individual clubs. At the moment, for me, it's not stagnation at all, Belarusian football has simply distanced itself at a very great distance from European football.
- Here is also such an indicative moment. Max Ebong was named the best player of Belarus this year, although Ilya Shkurin is having a terrific season in the Polish club "Steel". What can such a choice say?
- As they say, there are choices, there are no choices. You say Ebong. I can not even say where this player plays.
- He plays in Kazakhstan, in Astana. I think he's a midfielder.
- If a footballer who plays in Kazakhstan is recognised as the player of the year, but not a footballer who plays in the European championship, and they talk about him here, he has good press, then, probably, this is the same election as the presidential "election" in 2020.
- What do you think of Ilya Shkurin in general? Does he have potential? Can he play in some top championship?
- He is showing himself quite well in Poland. I can't say I've seen all the games. I was here at the game with Legia Warsaw, when Ilya played very effectively and the team beat one of the leaders (Shkurin scored a goal and gave two goals - note).
Plus I see in the reviews that he is quite effective in his team. But this is the first year only, Ilya has adapted well enough during these six months that he is in Poland. So he has an opportunity and a prospect to get to a stronger club in Poland. Because power forwards are valued here. He has everything ahead of him, he is still quite young.
- And why didn`t he manage to play in Dynamo Kyiv?
- You know, in Dynamo there is a different football, position football. Still, Ilya is a more forceful player, somewhere more on the counterattack.... Therefore, not every striker will be able to play in Dynamo Kyiv.
Maybe there was not enough time, the coach's trust was not enough. Plus, he came to another championship, Kyiv plays a different football. Maybe they wanted him to add power somewhere to Dynamo.
However, Ilya got the experience of playing in the Champions League. Today, what Belarusian footballer can boast that he played in the Champions League against Bayern or Benfica? All the same, this period went into his piggy bank, into his experience. And this is probably the moment that helps him to look confident in the Polish championship today.
- When you were the coach of Kyiv Dynamo you gave a lot of practice to young players. The same Viktor Tsygankov, who is now in the Spanish "Girona", Vitali Mikolenko in the English "Everton". Can there be such young talents in Belarus?
- Of course, it's interesting to work with the young, but sometimes it's very difficult. Those players, whom you named, have football education, they have a mentality, respect for the coach is very high, they are quite intelligent guys.
The second point - Mikolenko, Tsygankov, they did not look to the East somewhere, guys look to the West. Vitya knows English well. Vitaliy Mikolenko, playing for Dynamo first team, also knows English. I know that a teacher came to the base and between training sessions he learnt English. Because guys set goals to go to the top championships. And sooner or later they realised that it would happen. Someone left earlier, someone later. But the most important thing is that they have determination.
You talk about Belarusian footballers, but today Belarusian footballers look only towards this subcountry of Russia. And what do they see? What perspective is there in it? I can't understand.
If you look, I don't even know what teams the players who leave Belarus play in. For some reason, only a few of them look towards Europe.
This suggests that there is no confidence, because the West has a new mentality, new requirements, you need to rebuild. If they think that they will move to Russia and raise their professional level, it is a way to nowhere.
And today we see Russia: neither the national team nor the clubs have the right to play international games. And to look towards Russia today - in my understanding, as a professional, a professional footballer, is just insecurity.
- It turns out that the appearance of players of Valentin Belkevich and Alexander Gleb level in Belarus is rather an exception to the rules?
- It is an exception. No Belarusian footballer today is not even close to Valik.
- Can there be high-level football in Belarus? Or are we just a non-football country? Maybe we should concentrate on other sports? Handball, where we have some successes.
- You say "non-football country". Who is in charge of football today?
- The Minister of Sport is Lukashenko's former security guard.
- No, that's the minister. Football is ABFF.
In my time there was a pilot, then there was a cyclist, Rumas. There was a colonel Bazanov. Today - an agriculturalist (a graduate of the Vitebsk State Academy of Veterinary Medicine, specialising in zootechnics, Viktor Sherstnev - note).
And where are the football people? If hockey is led by a kayaker, tennis by a handball player, what kind of development can we talk about? Why are these people, who are profile people, who lead hockey, handball, tennis, they are not in their federations for rowing, handball? If you put me in charge of rowing today, I will make such a mess that twos, eights, fours will go one way, and we will swim the other way.
- So the fish rots from the head?
- The state cannot manage everything. Sport should be professional and private. Yes, of course, there should be a Ministry of Sport, which controls Olympic sports. But still athletes should be in organisations, in clubs, which are privately financed.
And when they say in Belarus: "How long can you feed sport?" You let go, you try, give people to invest their money, to demand results, to be able to give the salaries they want, to be able to invite foreigners, at the expense of which it is possible to raise any sport today.
But when the state controls how much you should receive, sets a ceiling on salaries, when there are restrictions on travelling, on training camps, what kind of development can we talk about? And then they say that they are "eating up state money". Sport should be private.
- You've probably already had a chance to see the football infrastructure in Poland. If you compare it with the Belarusian one: is it a head higher, two heads higher? Is it possible to compare it at all?
- I can say that I was not only at the games of the "Extra Class" (the highest division of the Polish football championship - note). There are guys here who work in the second league and in the first league as well. The infrastructure itself is not only a picture on TV, which shows that there are stadiums, 3000-5000 fans gather at these games. I'm talking about the second league, the first league, not about the "Extra Class".
All this is so far away from Belarus. It seems that it's 500 kilometres to Minsk, 200 kilometres to the border. But we are so far behind in terms of football and infrastructure..... These arenas, which were built or inflated, they were in Poland about 20 years ago.
- You do not hide your position on the war and what's happening in Belarus. Why do many sports stars keep silent nowadays?
- Today it's convenient, you know, to say that "sport is out of politics". But you still represent the state, which today helps the country, which is fighting in Ukraine.
- Take the same Sobolenko. Why is she afraid to express her position? She runs away from journalists. She seems to be a well-to-do and successful person.
- They are independent people, they are millionaires, mostly living in America. Yes, they have parents in Belarus, but I also have parents in Belarus. Yes, I have different positions with them. But they are still my parents, and I can't see them today. They can't see me, and they are the closest people.
But I can't keep silent in this situation. After all, Ukraine and Belarus are close to each other. God forbid that the Belarusians feel the war on themselves.
It is clear that it is easier for us, who are in Ukraine or abroad, to talk. However, we need to understand the situation. What is happening now in Ukraine is a real war. And people want to call everything a "situation". "Some situation is happening in Ukraine." This word is war.
You cannot say the word "war" that "there is a war in Ukraine," that "I am against war!"?
Sobolenko says: "Any normal person is against war." So you say that I am against war in Ukraine. It's hard to say!? It's hard for Domracheva to say that she's against the war in Ukraine!?
- These people are silent. But, for example, Alexander Gleb takes pictures with Azarenok, goes to propaganda shows. Do you think he is really an ideological supporter of this regime?
- If this is a conscious choice of Gleb, then I feel very sorry for him. Perhaps this is payback for some of his mistakes, the system has him by the balls (perhaps we are talking about a fatal road accident committed by Gleb - note). The man has played his whole career in European championships, he could always go abroad.
Therefore, he is a man of the system today. And the fact that he goes with Azarenk.... If this is broadcasted from television and such bile flies from the screens, then I'm very scared for the future generation of Belarusians.
There are always two sides. My position is that these people lie, and they lie brazenly.
A sensible person can always find a reason not to be photographed and not to be in the company of such subhumans.
- Do you believe in changes in Belarus? When and under what conditions can they come in our country?
- You know, everything comes to an end. And the war will end. One military man told me an interesting thing: the war will not end on the battlefield, the politicians will end it anyway. Military - they fight. It's the same in Belarus, everything will end one day. When? I can't say that for sure.
At the moment we should be patient with those people who are inside Belarus. You know, when there were elections in 2020 or 2015, you talk to people - nobody voted for Lukashenko. But he is in office for some reason. We need to understand that today this power cannot be changed by elections.
- Would you accept the offer to work in Belarus in the field of football if there were changes in the country?
- Over the past two years, probably, those people, who saw the war, have learnt to live today and enjoy it.
Therefore, today to say that I would have accepted the offer or not.... Today I really want to return to Ukraine. And as soon as I and my family have this opportunity, as soon as we finish all our questions on documents, we will return to Ukraine, no matter what the situation there is.
This is the most important thing. And we are living. We woke up today, read the news that it was a hard day in Ukraine (the interview was recorded after the large-scale attack of the Russians on Kiev on 29 December 2023, when 30 people were killed - note). Today it's easier, but it's relatively easier, there's still a war in the country.
Whether I would accept it or not - you know, there will be an opportunity - I am always happy to return to Belarus and work in Belarus. But today I can't even go back and see my parents.