Serhiy Kunitsyn is a legendary figure in football and politics in Crimea. Theformer president of Tavria, president of the Football Association of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol, and former prime minister of the Crimean autonomy are just some of the 63-year-old Ukrainian politician's resume.
- It was said that it was you who brought Firtash to football, is this true and how did it happen?
- At that time, we had 50 percent of the Crimean industry in chemical plants - Krymsoda and Titan. And he just came in and bought out 50 percent of Titan and Armyansk, and I was from there myself, I was the mayor of Krasnoperekopsk, a people's deputy, Tavria was in a terrible state, it was in last place, there was no money, the team was on the verge of collapse.
- Do you remember what year it was?
- 2004-2005. I met him then because I was the Prime Minister and I was approving documents for state property. And I asked him to repair the hospital and the only maternity hospital in the north of Crimea, which was in a terrible state, in Armyansk. We built a stadium in Krasnoperekopsk, and the Khimik team, which I supported and played in when I was a schoolboy, trained there. The House of Culture was repaired and I asked Firtash, because there were no more people, all the oligarchs had clubs, to help Tavria survive. He helped, he was fond of basketball back then, he supported BC Kyiv, and in fact this club became the founder of the new Tavria, Oleksandr Volkov and so on. I resigned from the post of Prime Minister of Crimea because Yushchenko became president and handed over to Anatoliy Matvienko, and I was elected president of the Federation of Crimea. And I thought, how can I be the president of the federation, the Prime Minister of Crimea, and the first champion of Ukraine dies - this is a lifelong shame. So I went there as president and for 10 years I practically led the team. The first coach was Fedorchuk, and then, when we were at the bottom, I was advised to hire Fomenko. He almost completely changed the team and I will say that we reached the second round, the first game in Donetsk with Shakhtar, we scored a goal in the first half and the team was completely different. It was only in the 78th minute that the Pitmen equalized on a penalty kick. Yanukovych told me then: "Where did you get this team?" And, according to the results of the second round, we took 3rd place, and 6th in total. We worked with Fomenko for 4 years, then there were other coaches, Altman, Luzhny, Puchkov. But the most memorable period was working with Mykhailo Fomenko. May he rest in peace, he died this year. He was a coach from God, a super decent person, and what he did for the team, despite the fact that we had a very small budget.
- What budget? In what years?
- Well, I didn't count, because the general director was in charge of that. And BC Kyiv was a sponsor, so I think it was up to 10 million, no more. At that time, Shakhtar and Dynamo had a budget of 100 million.
- Firtash also had a moment when he was interested, but then this interest disappeared. How did everything happen?
- I wouldn't say that interest disappeared. I'll tell you, when I came to Tavria myself, I thought I had been Prime Minister, MP, mayor for 7 years, what's the use of Tavria, can't I handle it? But six months later I realized that football is higher mathematics. In some ways, it is more complicated than politics and professional football - it is very hard work, financially expensive, and at that time only Shakhtar was working with a plus, all the others, including Dynamo, were working with a minus. So I wouldn't say that they have gone away. The government was changing, the attitude between it and businessmen was changing, and we were in such a period. But, despite everything, we won the Ukrainian Cup and became the third club to be the champion and winner of the UEFA Cup. By the way, I was the first and, to this day, probably the last club president to study to become a category B coach. I spent six months at the FFU desk. I went to understand what professional football is. Even the coaches made fun of me, but I came from Kyiv after my exams. Can you imagine, Kunitsyn is the president of the club and there are young guys sitting there. At first, everyone was surprised, but after my studies, I said that if every president went to study coaching, not to coach a second-league team, but to understand football more deeply. That's why I studied for the B category, and after 2014 for the A category, but I haven't studied for the PRO yet.
- Did the training give you something to understand?
- Absolutely. I came as a different person.
- What did you understand better?
- Everything. I realized that football is a whole science. You know what they used to say about football players in Soviet times: hit, run. They said that they didn't have brains, they just needed to run. Nowadays, football players are modern people, with knowledge of international languages, almost all of them have a university degree and speak English. Despite the fact that they don't have much time for non-football activities, you can't say that it's hit and run anymore. So, in general, the training gave me a lot of knowledge, and when I arrived, I sometimes got into a working debate with the coaches. They understood that the training had given me a professional understanding and it was much harder to "put noodles in my ears".
- Can you remind us when you resigned as president of Tavria?
- In 2012, I became a member of the Ukrainian parliament, and when the government changed in Crimea and the Party of Regions came to power, I was asked to make Mogilev the president of the club and me the general director in order to keep Tavria alive. Especially since I spent most of my time in Kyiv, in the parliament, I agreed, because I was ready to do anything for Tavria. I worked as president for about 8 years, and then, when Crimea was seized, you know.
- During these 8 years, there were achievements, 2010 was the peak, the Cup, good performances, but how did the club's budget change? Did it also grow?
- I'll tell you, we not only won the Cup, we were in the top 5, and our competitors then, in addition to Dynamo and Shakhtar, were Metalist, Dnipro, Arsenal and Karpaty. We had to fight hard to get into the top five. Yes, the budget needs were growing, we were looking for money wherever we could, because if you wanted to stay in the top, not just survive until the end of the season and stay in the Premier League, that was not about us. It was a very difficult thing, some people helped, but the budget grew, not because we wanted it to, we got new players, the famous Gomeniuk-Kovpak pair. The latter, by the way, was bought by Dnipro. There were players whose salaries should have been higher than when we started. We wanted to be at the top of the standings, we wanted to play in European competitions, we did, but without money it is impossible.
- Was there a bigger budget at the peak?
- When I left, I don't know what the budget was. The last two years...
- Well, you were a little bit suspended.
- You know, if I had said no, I wouldn't have been removed. I just understood that the situation was such that the power had passed to the Regions, the Prime Minister, just like I was, has financial capabilities. For the sake of the team's existence, I agreed. I work in Kyiv in the Verkhovna Rada, so the budget was increased about twice.
- Who brought Novinsky to Sevastopol?
- He came to Sevastopol on his own. I became the head of the administration, the mayor of this city.
- What year was it?
- From 2006 to 2010. In addition to Tavria, I was also involved in Sevastopol football. I'm telling you, the team of the hero city plays in the second league. They entered the first league, where they played successfully. But there was no stadium, so we started building an arena in Balaklava through state construction. Novinsky came to the Balaklava ore management, and I met him because I knew him. I told him then: "Vadym, there are 5 rounds left, Sevastopol is in the Premier League, there is no investor." And he was offered Kryvbas, because he had worked so hard, and I told him: "Your fellow Russians will not thank you for Kryvbas, but Sevastopol is a hero city. Moreover, you are from St. Petersburg." And he agreed, invested a large sum, built a modern stadium, invested in the team, and after 2014, when we met in the Verkhovna Rada, he said: "Yes, Sergiy, you have cheated me out of a certain amount of money, what are you doing now?" And I said that everything was taken away from everyone, including me.
- Did you say how much money?
- I didn't care what the budget was. Because Krasilnikov was the president of the Sevastopol Federation, and I owned Tavria. Krasilnikov and the starting manager came to me with frightened eyes five rounds before the end of the season and asked: "What should we do? We are going to the Premier League, but we have no money." I answered them: "What will you tell the players? Guys, do we give up those matches and not go out?" "Sevastopol had never been this high, neither in the Soviet Union nor in the days of independent Ukraine.
- According to your story, Firtash invested about 100 million in Tavria? Did he have one hundred percent funding or did he have additional sources?
- He did not have one hundred percent funding. Because he had a lot of industry, then he was elected president of the workers' council and, as far as I know, more than a hundred thousand people worked at chemical plants across the country. I can say that he financed more than half of them, and we, the Crimeans, provided 30-40 percent.
- Were these commercial structures or state aid?
- No, there was no state aid. Plus, we sold several successful players.
- For example?
- Gomeniuk, Kovpak, Edmar to Metalist, who later played for the Ukrainian national team and became a citizen.
- Who was the most expensive player you sold?
- Homeniuk.
- For how much?
- It will remain a secret.
- When you were president, did you spend 5 percent of your time on Tavria or is it hard to calculate?
- When I was president, that was all I did. Football, Tavria, the federation. In addition, I headed the Afghanistan veterans in Crimea, was a deputy of the Verkhovna Rada of Crimea, 4 convocations in a row. I had a lot to do, so this was my main job. There is no other way.
- You spoke highly of Fomenko, can you recall any stories that illustrate this?
- Firstly, when we were looking for a coach, I was advised to hire him, we had Vitaliy Reva, who played for him at CSKA. I asked him what he would say about Mikhail Ivanovich, and he told me a joke: "This is a fair head of the Gestapo, God forbid that five players from your entire team remain." We met with Fomenko, talked, and he gave his approval. 56 people came to the training camp, and more than half of them couldn't stand the strain because he paid great attention and time to physical activity. As a result, when we were traveling to Donetsk, I remember what he said to our players: "You all together, remember, are worth as much as one leg of Dario Srna. That's why we can't beat Shakhtar technically, but we outrun them." In the end, it was 1-1. There were different moments, we had a lot of international matches. We played Bayer Leverkusen, Rennes, it was a dramatic match, 0-1 there, 1-0 here - 24 penalties, a full stadium of fans and we lost on the last 11-meter penalty.
- Were you worried?
- Not really, it was my birthday the next day. I don't remember a worse birthday, judging by my mood.
- Are you not so worried about the Ukrainian national team now?
- You can't compare the two. The national team is the face of the nation, just imagine, Ukraine is bleeding, I have a son in the special forces for 2 years, my sister is serving, her husband served 6 years in Azov and died, her house burned down in Irpin, she was left at 48 without a husband, without housing, without anything and still went to serve. And football is the only joy for those in the trenches and those who live in Ukraine and abroad. Everyone is watching. The soldiers at the front are very excited, so our guys should understand that in a war when the blood of our soldiers and civilians is being shed, football and victories give a boost to everyone, from soldiers to civilians. I can tell you that we can't even estimate the value of football now for a country at war, where the championship is taking place with virtually no fans, where there are people who work in clubs, where there are players who have made names for themselves in the world's leading clubs. Lunin at Real Madrid, Tsygankov and Dovbyk at Girona, Zinchenko at Arsenal, and so on. We have never had players of this class to play at the world level. That's why I can't compare Tavria and the national team - it's a different love. When I was running for president of the club, Surkis was president of the federation. And he said to me: "Well, remember, from this day on, you are a football addict too."
- How long did it take you to get hooked on this football needle?
- From the very first day. The team was relegated from the first league. It took a titanic effort not to disgrace myself and leave my name written in black letters that the first champion died under his watch.
- Let's recall the sad events of 2013, when you were in Udar. By the way, you and Udar parted ways after that. Why?
- We didn't part ways. We signed an agreement with Klitschko, the Afghanistan Veterans Party was not part of UDAR, the parties did not unite. We signed an agreement that we would run with Klitschko on the common list. We did not want to go with the Regions. And Klitschko introduced himself to us as a new force of the central political direction. So we went there, and two of us became members of the Verkhovna Rada. We didn't leave, but after Zelensky was elected president and Poroshenko lost, the overall situation changed, and we no longer cooperate politically with UDAR.
- Was it interesting working with Klitschko? Do you have any stories of him surprising you?
- I didn't know him, but when he came to Crimea, when we signed the agreement in Kyiv, we traveled around Crimea together, organized meetings, spent a lot of time together, talked. You know, there are various jokes about boxers, but I saw that he really looked like a new political force of a central nature that could overcome these extremes in the face of the Party of Regions on the one hand and other right-wing parties, could win if it was serious. And then there was the Maidan, I was elected a member of the Maidan Council because Afghans were the core of the Maidan, more than 3,000 of them went through it. Then they went to different battalions. And when the war came, the situation changed.
- In 2014, Crimea was annexed. There is an opinion that there was no chance to defend it, because the population was in favor of Russia, and even if they had received an order to shoot, it would have been worse. What is your opinion on this?
- I am sure that Crimea has been surrendered. We had reasons to keep it. If you remember, when the Russian troops entered, they were not wearing chevrons because they needed Sevastopol. Our Verkhovna Rada had just come in, had not yet formed its structures, had canceled the Kharkiv agreements, the law on the Russian language, which the Russians played on in Crimea. And by and large, they needed Sevastopol. They knew that there was a people in Crimea, the Crimean Tatars, for whom Moscow and Stalin were words that had driven half the people to death. They realized that there would be problems, so we had the strength. Not like they say that there were only 3,000 combat-ready units. This is not true. Yanukovych's generals and ministers, of course, had Russian passports, but the middle management and airborne brigades, marines, and special forces were ready. I personally called Turchynov and said, give the command to open fire, we will not kill them, we will just send a few tanks, armored personnel carriers and fire a few volleys over their heads and they will scatter. The Russians were waiting, they were thinking and waiting for this, but unfortunately, it did not happen, and the Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada told me that there was a plan to capture Crimea, to conduct exercises, because not all the intelligence officers were traitors, but he did not do it. He told me that the Americans assured me that the Russians would leave. I said, you are sitting in your offices in Kyiv, and here the FSB is chasing me. I see the picture - they will not leave. And the people were just scared, not so much in favor of Russia. They were scared that the Right Sector would grill children, eat women, etc. That is, two or three generations had already grown up living under independent Ukraine, and by and large these people were not eager to be taken away by Russia. And in the early 90s, they didn't want it at all, because there was the Chechen war and turning Crimea into Chechnya was not a good prospect.
I'm sure that Crimea could have been defended, as it was in the early 90s, when President Meshkov was elected there, the Crimean Republican Movement was elected, and the Verkhovna Rada was made up of 90 percent pro-Russian members, and the leadership was brought in from Moscow. Ukraine coped with everything; the pro-Russian parliamentarians themselves removed Meshkov, the government, and our country deployed military units. In fact, Ukraine gave everything to Crimea: an elevated status, an autonomous Republic of Crimea, its own Rada, constitution, and the bulk of taxes remained in Crimea. And in 2014, we could have gone the same way, left all the taxes, added more powers, because the government was still very shaky and I think we would have lost Sevastopol most likely, especially since there were tens of thousands of Russian army troops there at the time, and Crimea could have been defended so that it remained in Ukraine with more powers. Unfortunately, this did not happen. And then the Russians got hungry because they managed to capture Crimea so easily, and they moved on to Donbas. If they had shown their teeth in Crimea, there would have been no Donbas.
- When did you realize that nothing would change regarding Crimea?
- When I heard that there would be no order for the military, that we would not resist, I understood. They wanted to arrest me, so I called the airport and told them to book a ticket to Kyiv. The Russians sent 200 people there to arrest me. I actually left by car and by the last train, which was not checked. There was no point in being there.
- Usually, the Russians recruit, arrange somehow. Did they approach you beforehand, did they have conversations to get you to their side?
- There were conversations, and they hinted and offered me to stay there.
- What did they offer? The same position?
- Yes.
- Why didn't you agree, since 80 percent of them did?
- Because I am a patriot of Ukraine. In 1990, I was one of the youngest members of the Verkhovna Rada of the first convocation. By the way, we were the youngest, five sergeants and five Afghans, I was 26-28 years old at the time. There were 38 Afghans in total, and all of them voted for independence. I am not a political whore, if I am for Ukraine, I am for Ukraine. And my morality did not allow me to run to the other side, I thought it was immoral and politically wrong because we signed the agreements. Putin became president and said that they have no claim to Ukraine, it's a closed question, except for the markings in the Tuzla area. Crimea is a legitimate territory of Ukraine.
- What was the story about the FSB persecuting you and hiding with the Tatars? Was it true or was it taken out of context?
- They didn't persecute me, they wanted to arrest me. Because I arrived and started giving orders, we took control of the Russian battalion, the airfield in Kirovske was waiting for our 25th and third special forces regiments, because there were airborne units, special operations forces, who were already in the planes. The 79th Mykolaivska was supposed to come in from Kherson, and there was a plan to prevent the capture of Crimea. And when I arrived, I started commanding because all the leaders were from Donetsk and they all wrote reports. In a day, everyone was replaced and we started acting. So every evening I went on the air, ambassadors and representatives of international organizations met with me. I met with them all the time, but I did not go to the center of Simferopol because I knew that I would be arrested and locked up there. I changed cars every day, first I was given the car in which Yanukovych was fleeing and I could not understand, on the outskirts of Simferopol I was with security, people with weapons, we were drinking coffee for half an hour, and then we were surrounded. As it turned out later, there was a wiretap and a navigator in that bus, and they were tracking us. When I started changing cars, they would arrive in 1.5-2 hours. I spent the night with both Crimean Tatars and non-Crimean Tatars, of course, I changed my place of residence because there was a threat of arrest.
- Did someone report that Yanukovych was in Crimea, or did you find out after the fact?
- No, I was on the Maidan. In December 2013, I had to defend my dissertation at the university in Crimea. The academic council from all over the country arrived, and the rector of the university, the late Bagrov, the first chairman of the Verkhovna Rada, locked the university and did not let me or the academic council in. He told me: "Yanukovych personally called me and said that Kunitsyn was commanding the Afghans on the Maidan, so he should not defend his dissertation." And I was never allowed to defend my thesis, I did it the day after the victory of the Maidan. But then I was an MP, and on 26-27 we lost a week of time. I was offered by MPs from the party that ruled there, the Party of Regions, to return for the third time as Prime Minister. They said that they did not want the "woodshedders" to come, that even though I was from Maidan, I was theirs, Crimean. They guaranteed that the Verkhovna Rada would vote for me. I told Turchynov and the leadership that if they agreed and I became Prime Minister for the third time, we would not allow it. But they thought for another week and sent another person to Crimea. Remember, there were rallies of Crimean Tatars organized by Russians. We lost time, and with it Crimea.
- It is still important to have a dream, whether you are 15 or 60. What is your football dream and your life dream? Maybe you want to revive Tavria when everything is over?
- As a person who went through Afghanistan, and now the third war in my life, I think that now everyone dreams of peace, that the war will end in favor of Ukraine, because it will be fair.
And we will rebuild everything else, that is, the most important thing today is to end the war. As for football, we are currently at the Euros, so I would like the Ukrainian national team to rise as high as possible. At least to the semifinals. As for Tavria, I understand that now in the Kherson region, where the team played, they had a good base, a stadium, prospects, and the task was to reach the first league, then the Premier League. We understand what is happening in Kherson and what the Russians have turned it and the region into... It won't be long before we can do this, even if we win in the near future. It will take decades to demine the territories there, but of course, we have this dream.
- Tell us a little about your family, most of them are defending Ukraine.
- My sister and her husband came here in 2015 because they couldn't live there, they are pro-Ukrainian. He went to fight in Azov, spent 3 years there, then returned to Kyiv, worked in our veterans' organizations, and in 2019 said he couldn't stay here and would go to Azov. When the full-scale war started, he was a mortar team commander. He would have turned 50 years old recently, and he died on April 15, 2022, when our troops broke through to Azovstal. He was driving a car with about 20 seriously wounded guys. Next to him was a fellow soldier whose finger had been blown off by a bullet, who bandaged it and told him to run forward, because there were a few hundred meters to go before the terrible shelling. And this guy came back from captivity and told me how Lenya died. He said that he did not leave the guys, they were all non-walkers. And this guy ran a few hundred meters and saw the car hit. We still can't find him. They did DNA tests, found the commander, buried him last year, but they haven't found Lenya. And his sister was left with nothing, so she went to the military enlistment office, mobilized, trained as a combat medic and has been serving in one of the battalions for a year and a half.
Solomiya Romanchuk, Denys Shakhovets, Maksym Rozenko